Sir Victor Umeh is the National Chairman of the All Progressive Grand Alliance (APGA). In this interview with IGHO OYOYO in Abuja, x-rays the country’s political independence anniversary at 51, corruption, party politics, leadership, followership and other topical national issues. Excerpts:
Opposition parties in the country are been criticized for lacking the required vibrancy. Do you agree?
The opposition parties are doing so much in Nigeria, but what everybody must admit is the difficulty that goes with it. You are mobilizing Nigerians to resist wrong action, but the public doesn’t appear to be on the same page as you because of poverty. The citizens have not woken up to their responsibility of holding the people in leadership responsible and accountable for their deeds. The opposition parties are doing quite a lot in order to put the leadership at the center on its toes. But it will require very strong followership of the citizens for what they are doing to have any impact. During the constitution amendment exercise, the opposition parties submitted bundles of memoranda to both Justice Mohammed Uwais Committee and we also appeared during the public hearing at the National Assembly to canvass for important reforms that would shape our democracy.? We did all these, but because of the prevailing situation where PDP has the dominant membership in the National Assembly, the progressive reforms were not accepted by the National Assembly based on their party interest. So it is something that will be continuous and the effect of the opposition parties may not be judged in one year or two years. If the action is sustained, it will gather national momentum over time and the changes we are canvassing for will come true.
Many believe however that the Parties don’t have the ideology to help them sustain this drive. What is your take on this?
APGA is one of the opposition parties if you like, because we are not within the central government, we are independent on our own but we will continue to push. And the voice of our party is very strong in Nigeria today in canvassing for change in a lot of areas, particularly the central reforms. We will continue to do that and people who are docile over this course may wake up one day and join base on the way governance affects them.? If Nigerian people continue to suffer insecurity, if they continue to suffer poverty and underdevelopment, it will not take long to become a national project, it will not be something that would be left to opposition party any more. The opposition parties act as vanguard of the struggles. However, it is the people that will make it happen and not the opposition parties. If you look at places across the world where changes have been achieved, particularly North Africa today, you will see the level of protest, it is not championed by the opposition parties but by the citizens. So you do not discriminate whether you are one party or the other, everybody will be united in calling for change. So by the time the severity of underdevelopment, poverty and insecurity eat up the fabric of the nation, everybody will troop to the street to bring about change.
Don’t you think that is long overdue?
It is not long overdue, because the people still have the sense of absorbing capacity for these wrong things, when they become unbearable that is when you now say it is long overdue.
Do you agree with the assumption that Nigerians are docile? Can we revolt against these wrong doings?
It is not, it is because the Nigerian people are built with a lot of patience with their leaders and that they are not quick in taking to the street. Somehow people have continued to survive.? But it will get to a stage where life will become so unbearable that you will not need anybody to mobilize you to join the bandwagon for change.
Perhaps that might be the reasons successive governments have been taking the people for granted?
It is very wrong for successive leadership to take people for granted. Responsible leadership must listen to public opinion and public interest and that is the way it is in civilized democracy. The fact that our people are not able to rise immediately to mass national action does not mean that they are not capable of doing so. Sometimes, a lot of things are brought to bear for the people and then opinion becomes divided.? In Nigeria today, because of our multiethnic nature, national aggressive actions have been difficult, because people who are in leadership at the highest level in Nigeria will always get the support of their own people and once you are in, the people will want you to be there forever because of ethnic sentiment, that is why corruption is thriving in Nigeria.? When somebody is caught looting the treasury, if you arraign him in court, his people will cry out ethnic persecution. That it is because he is Yoruba that is why he is been tried, or because he is Igbo, that is why he is been tried.? So until we remove ethnic colouration from the fight against corruption, we will be wasting our time.
The House of Representatives is probing an alleged N450b debt the NNPC owes the federation account and other corruption allegation in the oil sector. What is your take on the manner the country’s resources is being managed?
Oil has been the mainstay of Nigeria economy and NNPC which is the government company charged with oil exploration and management of oil revenue, becomes a very important organization in Nigeria.? Because of the fact that so much accrues to Nigeria through the activities of the NNPC, it will not be out of place to say that corruption must be thriving there.? People tend to put pressure on any system through which the money comes from.? So if you are to ask me, I will tell you that one probe that is very scary in Nigeria, is the probe of the NNPC. Any time the government of Nigeria musters the political will and courage to investigate the activities of the NNPC in the past 15years, hell will be let loose,? so much things are happening there, oil wells are been privatized in Nigeria, and the process of the privatization, nobody has been able to see through it.? So we know that a lot of underground deals have been going on in the oil sector, but who will bear the cat? Who will probe into the activities of this important government agency without been caught in the process? So, it is a corruption that has taken everybody on board in the process. But I think for transparency and for proper audit or checks in tending the activities of this important agency of government, the Nigerian government must probe into the activities of the agency, let us see what is happening there.
There are many anti-corruption agencies in Nigeria probing government agencies, yet we are still having this kind of corruption walking on two bare legs in the country?
Well, I think the problems are many; fighting corruption is a very difficult thing.? You have seen the situation in the past where some people have dared to probe activities of some powerful people in Nigeria and they get themselves consumed in the process.? So it is a very risky thing, corruption is a mafia activity in Nigeria.? If you want to confront it, you have to wear crash helmet and bullet proof; otherwise you throw in your life into it.? For the fact that we have so much mess in the way we run our affairs, the anti-corruption agencies have not been able to do quite a lot. Also they have a lot of legal huddles to deal with. The court systems have not helped the EFCC. The EFCC has demonstrated the desire to fight corruption in Nigeria; they have arraigned a lot of people.? When they take people to court, and the machinery of justice grinds very slowly, what will the anti-graft agency do? Through legal maneuver the people are granted bail and they start living false life again. So the laws must be reviewed, there are recent argument for a special court to be dedicated for trying corruption and not regular court.? And if we have special court, we shall have special rules, so that delays will no longer be allowed, frivolous applications for adjournment and others will not be granted. If it comes to a special court dealing with corruption, once you are arraigned, you do not get out until your trial is completed. And time limit will be fixed, like they do in electoral petitions now.? So, corruption requires a special court in Nigeria, not the regular court.
Talking about the vibrancy of opposition parties, what would you say has been the contributions of APGA?
Right from the day APGA was registered in 2002, the party has been taking part in every election in the country, and has demonstrated immense electoral goodwill. The party formation was initiated from the south eastern part of Nigeria, along with other Nigerians across the country.? In 2003, the support which the party received at the elections was the highest in the south east of Nigeria.? And because of the electoral fraud of that election, APGA only had two House of Representatives seats, and two State House of Assembly seats in Imo and Anambra States.
All our victories were taken away, we had to go through the court to fight to reclaim our mandates across the zones, but we were only able to recover the Anambra State governorship seat on the 16th of March, 2006, after two years of been in the tribunal and the court of appeal. With the crisis that rocked the party as a result of our being in the court to reclaim our mandates, our former Chairman, Chief Chekwas Okorie tried to trade away our struggle in Anambra State and that brought crisis to the party, he was later shoved aside and expelled.? Government in Anambra State suffered a lot of challenges from the hands of those we removed from office, that our governor Mr. Peter Obi was unconstitutionally impeached and we reinstated him through the court. His tenure was abridged by an election that ought not to have taken place in 2007, we went through the court again to extend his tenure in office.? I will say that it is only in 2011, that the party has enjoyed the best of season, on 26 March this year, the leadership dispute that was a subject of legal challenge brought by our former chairman was also rested at the Supreme Court. The apex court upheld his expulsion from the party for anti party activities.? In 2011 general elections, the party made bold inroad in to the political sphere of Nigeria, apart from the fact that we won the governorship election in 2007 in Anambra State, that is the second term for Peter Obi, in this year general election, we also won the governorship seat in Imo State.? We were able to win one senate seat with Senator Chris Anyanwu. We won seven seats in the House of Representatives and won 32 seats in the House of Assembly, producing the Speakers of Imo and Anambra States Houses of Assembly.? So the party has come out from the trench.
The argument put forward by the former Chairman was that the party he formed and built was forcefully taken away from him by you. Was this really what happened?
If it was correct, the court would not have ruled against him three times, he was the one who took his expulsion to the High Court, the High Court affirmed his expulsion from the party as been in line with APGA constitution, he took it on appeal to the Court of Appeal, the Court of Appeal in a unanimous decision stood against him and upheld the expulsion from the party. He went to the Supreme Court and a panel of five Justices in a unanimous decision upheld his expulsion from the party. So there is no argument that he would make that would be sustainable.
The truth is that allegation of anti party activities were established against him on the bases of which he was expelled from the party, so the Supreme Court would not have affirmed his expulsion if the party was taken away from him by force.
The perception of Nigerians is that APGA is a regional party, popular in the South East and not been able to make solid inroad in other parts of Nigeria, what are you doing to make it a national party?
APGA has been contesting all election across Nigeria, and you do not force the electorate to vote for your party, the electorate based on certain reasons will decide to vote for a particular party. The Action Congress of Nigeria, ACN is a household party in the South West, the CPC that came up the other day, has a strong showing in the North; APGA’s formation was initiated from the South East, but as a national political party. The followership of the party has remained solid from the South East, but it does not make it a regional party, it is a national party because we contested all the elections in Nigeria this year. You take victories where you get them and continue to work hard to win in other areas in future. So every political party has a solid base from formation, but then they walk to the centre of Nigeria. APGA is marching to the centre of Nigeria.
Looking at it from what you just said, do you envisage that we might go back to the first republic where we have some regional parties?
This situation is not traceable to Nigeria alone.? All over the world, political parties have their dominant areas where they hold sway and no other party dare to challenge them, whereby in any election they always win. It is a matter of conviction that people follow a political party at any election. Regional parties were the common place in the 1960s in Nigeria, and even in 1979 when democracy returned to Nigeria after about so many years of military rule, there were also some strong regional parties. The UPN was strong in the South West, the Nigerian Peoples Party, led by Zik was strong in the South East, the Peoples Redemption Party, led by Mallam Aminu Kanu, with one in Kano and Kaduna State, there was still one again, the Great Nigerian Peoples Party, GNPP that won in Gongola and Borno State. So the electorate will always support a party based on the leadership of that party and that is the Nigerian situation. I believe that with time, if we continue to have credible elections in Nigeria, it is possible that parties that start from one small concentration can grow and take over the whole county. What is important is the consistency of the party in its pursuit on the set goal and important party national issues.? A party that is progressive in outlooks and continues to fight for the emancipation of the ordinary people of Nigeria will likely get the votes of the ordinary people of irrespective of the region you come from without rigging. There is every hope that APGA will spread it tentacles across Nigeria with credible elections.
One of the solid back bone of APGA, Chief Odumegu Ojukwu is presently indisposed; looking at the impact of the Ojukwu factor on the party, don’t you think the absence will impact negatively on the party in the nearest future?
It is not possible for the Ojukwu factor to die quickly in the party. Ojukwu is an enigma, and he is somebody whose influence will remain, even in death.? For the fact that he is a leader of APGA, people who believe in his leadership, will continue to support the party which he is leading today, even in his absence.? In the last elections, there is no doubt that his physical presence during campaign would have helped to mobilize more people for the election.? But APGA did not suffer because he was not around physically, people still remembered his message and they supported the party.
APGA like you painted has been a victim of electoral malpractices in the past years, do you think you have gotten over those huddles, going by your victories in the last election?
It is not possible for you to break away from challenges in election, we have just had an election this year that was adjudged to be better than all that we have had in the past, but that does not mean that the election was perfect.?
There is no perfect situation in human activities, but we will continue to pray that improvements are recorded on the achievement so far by INEC in this present election.
It is when INEC keeps the tempo up that it will continue to add to the fortunes of all political parties and the freedom of choice which the constitution guarantees the electorate will be respected. And if that happens, there is nothing that will be certain on who will win or lose during elections, because the votes will be counted and will count.
If you were told to rate the last election, what would be your rating?
I will rate it about 80 per cent. Jega tried a lot, because as you know, an election succeeds based on the mindset of the leadership of the electoral body. Jega was honest and was out to deliver a credible election, the 20 per cent INEC lost in this credibility was as a result of subordinates which Jega and his top leadership could not contain during the elections. This is our country where some junior officers can go for money and then connive with politicians to deliver fraudulent results. It is for the commission to look at the performance of its past election of 2011 and weed out those corrupt officers within the commission across the country.
There are calls for punitive measure for electoral officers who rig elections. What is your take?
Any society which does not have sanction against wrong actions will never get it right.? We are still surprise that Jega has not arraigned obvious electoral culprits in the 2011 general elections. The electoral offences commission was argued for during the constitutional amendment exercise and of course, Jega was given enough powers to arraign and prosecute electoral offenders.? There were a lot of them that were arrested during the 2011 general elections, but we have not seen any of them arraigned in any court.
So you believe we have sufficient legal framework but lack the needed political will?
Yes, it is the will that we have not seen yet.? This is October, over five months after the elections. I believe that in the next two months, Jega must be bringing people to court, for Nigerians to take him serious.
Perhaps there are official interferences that are making him not to do it?
No, Jega must resist those interferences, because that is what he promised Nigerians, that anybody that goes against the law, he must prosecute, that was the promise he made to Nigerians. And we were aware of arrests made and some of them were paraded on television.? But if in the next two months, Jega fails to bring these people to court for their offences, Nigerians will begin to doubt his sincerity and I know he will not allow that to happen. There are obvious cases he must prosecute in court.
How would you describe Nigeria at 51?
It has been a very challenging time for the country, no doubt. What is clear is that some people are still working assiduously to make Nigeria succeed and we have every reason to be grateful to God that the Nigerian nation is still alive. That we have gone through 50 years of nationhood, we have experienced different kinds of leaders in the past 50 years. I believe that we still have hope that Nigeria will pull through. The president that we have today, Goodluck Jonathan is sincerely committed in pulling Nigeria through. What is important now is for those who want Nigeria to fail to have a change of heart because if we destroy the country, there will be no hope for anybody.
A lot of people are trying to ensure that government does not succeed. I do not think we are trying to be fair to our children, if at this time and age, we continue to work through underground means to pull our government down.? The president as a person has demonstrated that he is harmless. He is somebody that is not vindictive. We have had president who chased people up and down in the past. Everybody turned his enemy.? But in this present situation, the president is calm and committed toward finding solution to the Nigerian problems.? He has promised transformation and transformation cannot take off in an atmosphere of insecurity.? Some people have taken it upon themselves to sow insecurity in the Nigerian nation, so that the president cannot concentrate.
May be he should confront it?
How do you confront it when you are dealing with guerrilla warfare? When you are dealing with guerrilla warfare, you do not know the location of the enemies.? So the security agencies need to be more up and doing, to have the intelligence required to crush this subterranean moves.?
The president needs the support of everybody that is what I think we should do.? If he is allowed to run his tenure peacefully, another person will take over from him to improve on what he achieved, but if we say he will not be allowed to thrive then that would be wrong. APGA does not support such arrangement.
People believe that the problem of this country has been a problem of leadership and not followership, do you subscribe to that?
Leadership has a great percentage of blame to take in the past 50 years.? If we had been lucky to have responsible leaders in the past, the problems we are facing today will not be of this magnitude. A lot of people who ruled Nigeria in the past saw it as an opportunity for them to have their own share of the national cake. They did not lay foundation for sustainable development of the country. But it is not late in starting today. Goodluck Jonathan has assembled a very powerful economic team to manage the economy for Nigeria.? What we should be looking forward to is conducive atmosphere for this economic management team to put up its reforms with Okonjo-Iweala as the coordinating minister for the economy.? I believe in her sincerity and commitment to her ways of doing things.? So it is not too late to start. Even in the 51st year of our nationhood, the president can begin now to lay those solid foundations that would guarantee sustainable democracy and economic development. These things must come if appropriate reforms are put in place. What is important today is that Nigerians need reforms in many areas, political reform and economic reform.? It is only when you have economic and political reform that the country will experience prosperity.