Ambassador Ahmed Al-Gazali, Chairman, Federal Civil Service Commission bowed out of service last month after superintending the commission for 10 years. In this interview with JOSHUA UMA, he speaks on his achievements and the challenges he faced.
TEN YEARS AGO YOU ASSUMED OFFICE AS THE CHAIRMAN OF FEDERAL CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION, CAN YOU COMPARE THE SERVICE THEN TO THE ONE NOW?
Well, it was really in shambles then, because it wasn’t quite four or five years that Decree 48 was promulgated and the service became a battlefield. For instance, somebody you know graduated at the same time with you who came into the service but because of whom he or she knew up there is better placed and the others displaced. This was injustice!
So people were scrambling for justice and we did a lot in order to address the injustice. When I came on board, I tried to ensure that people got their rightful place; where they should be in the first place.
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WHAT WERE THE PROBLEMS YOU ENCOUNTERED AS CHAIRMAN?
It is the quality of service delivery in the civil service in this 21st century. The world is becoming very competitive and open, therefore we needed a kind of service that can withstand the challenges of the 21st century. The country needed very competent civil service to be able to face challenges and meet global competitiveness. We needed a well informed competent public service; even to survive as a nation depends on this because many things are happening around the world today.
Take for example what is happening in the Middle East. Do you think it is not going to affect us? Again, look at what is happening in what they call ‘Arab Spring’, what is happening in Tunisia, in Egypt, in Yemen and in Jordan. You know all these issues and that of unemployment are all the cause of crises.
Therefore, it is the place of any good public service to advice policy makers that there is something wrong and the need to read the handwriting on the wall.
This is why we have introduced performance contract, when for the first time, government will bring in the members of the public on board together with all stakeholders; so that they can see what government is doing and acknowledge what is happening. This is also what is going on in Kenya.
Every end of year, all the ministers and their ministries will come to be graded from one (1) to ten (10) and receive a handshake, while the last 10 will be called list of shame.?
Now, understand that the following year the man who is at number 10 will not like to drop, the man who has been mentioned in the list of shame would not like to be mentioned in the list of shame and the one who is in the middle will rather go up than go down. This makes for accountability.
The ministers have the opportunity to tell the public what they have done so far by showcasing results. With these there is hardly any gap between the ruler and the ruled and when there is no gap there will be no crack and when there is no crack there is peace and better appreciation.
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WHAT SOLUTION DID YOU PROFFER?
What we have done is try as much as possible to recruit or appoint people on merit. Once they are appointed on merit, the next is training but unfortunately the issue of training was neglected unlike in the military where you are trained before you can be given any position. So training was neglected for about 15 years but we changed this trend.
In the past, there were no attempts whatsoever to ensure that the people got the right kind of training and because of this, we lost so much. You know, it is not that easy to get out but I think the training is going on and our institutions are now going on. Civil servants are going to ASCON and people are going abroad all over the place just to ensure that they become knowledgeable, become competent in their core areas of competence so that they can advise government knowledgeably.
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YOU TALKED ABOUT ASCON. WHAT IS THE NATURE OF TRAINING WHICH TAKES PLACE THERE?
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Well, there is some kind of training going on but for about 15 years, the training needs as you know, was neglected. What I mean by training is for example; in the military from what l know, when you go from captain to major, they attend some sorts of courses and you know they must pass them before they become it and once you are a lieutenant, you must attend certain courses and you must pass them.? What happens in the service actually from 1988 is ok and is going on well.
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PERFORMANCE CONTRACT; WILL IT WORK?
Yes, it will work. Performance contract, for the first time will provide the linkage between the government and the people. The contract forms the basis for evaluation and assessment against expected goals and objectives. This seeks also to tier projects to needs, with reference to the people and what they need. For example, it is what the people want that you will give to them. You don’t give them a bore hole when they are looking for schools and you are building bridges which is not what the people need. Through performance contract, you link with the people. You may lose your budget, they know how much you earn, they know what you can do and what you cannot.
If the National Assembly for example, passes our budget, we know that we have a budget we are supposed to do projects ABCD. We also know they have been defended for the year and once the budget is passed, the minister and all the senior officers including the permanent secretary will seat down and say this is our budget this is it what can it achieve and when they agree, everybody, every civil servant will be given its role from January to December on what to right at the end of the year.
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IS THE CIVIL SERVICE CORRUPT?
I don’t know what you mean by corrupt. You see, there is a problem very fundamental. I did a lot of reading on corruption, so let me tell you and you will know better. You see for anybody to accept that something is corrupt we at our common level must agree first that a particular action is a corrupt act. Let me give example. Steal money or get money by whatever means not proper is the same no matter who took it and kept it abroad in a Swiss Bank compared with another person who stole money and built a town hall or a hospital and gives scholarship to the people in his area.
By the time the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (EFCC) goes to arrest him, all the community will come out with machetes and gang up to say that this man is not corrupt. They do every thing to save this man and they are saying that he is not corrupt because their interest has been protected.
So there must be acceptance of a particular standard to measure corruption, our standards are different. It is a clash of two hierarchical political systems. Imagine a traditional ruler say like an emir going on a tour of his emirate and is entertained very well by the local chief and he gets money from the chief? Is the money not public funds?
To the British, it is funds embezzlement whereas a traditional man would not consider it the same, so you understand what I mean. Therefore, we have to think very high about all these things because if we don’t there is a problem and we can hardly make the kind of progress we desire.
Now, look at the ordinary civil servant and the corruption of monetization. One minister extends one vehicle for 20 vehicles this is so because of monetization! We the civil servants are being given money to rent houses, the civil servants were clapping and what happened was that they thought that the money was going to be given to them at once and not piecemeal so that they can go and rent a house but unfortunately it wasn’t so.
No land lord will take one twelfth on a monthly basis you all know and they don’t take less than 2 years. So, you are forced to live in Keffi or Suleja or Bwari villages. Tell me, how you can get to work before 7:30am or 8:00am? Monetization has to be reviewed!
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WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT UNDER- STAFFED MINISTRIES?
The Service can only take what it can take and what it can take is what the rules permit. If they tell us that they need only 10 agricultural officers and that it is what they can take because that is what the money is approved for. Recruitment has been on, all these years except for when there was embargo on unemployment. The service alone can not absorb the thousands of graduates the universities produce annually. We need a vibrant private sector to contain the issue of unemployment.?
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WHAT ADVICE DO WANT TO LEAVE BEHIND FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE, ESPECIALLY ON TENURE?
You know that in some countries, what they do is that they hire you telling you that this government tenure is four years and that they are hiring you as either a permanent secretary or a director with job specifications. It will be spelt out that this is what we want you to do, these are the funds and if you don’t deliver; they say there are other people waiting, then you are sacked.
The effect of what you have done is that you are not appoint able again, so you don’t go and take over and carry on. So it makes a lot of sense. You are hired, given the funds and a free hand to go ahead and carry on your task and there are thousands waiting generally to take your place if you fail. This is the tenure system I want for Nigeria!
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WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT PENSION DELAY, PENSIONERS DYING IN THE COURSE OF TRYING TO GET THEIR PENSION?
Delay in pension including the collapse of a pensioner is honestly very bad. In some ways, it encourages corruption because if at the end of the journey, you are not getting your gratuity and pension then, people will say other people who retired are suffering; they would say why should I suffer. Then they try to grab one or two things. Honestly, it is a big problem and needs to be sorted out. We are worried. I used to discuss this with the past Head of Civil Service, Prof. Oladapo Afolabi and there is slight improvement.
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WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ON THE ISSUE OF GHOST WORKERS?
Yes, there are ghost workers and we have Integrated Personnel Payroll Information System (IPPIS), where they discovered about 43 thousand ghost workers. This action blocks the chances of people been recruited but some people are benefiting from this, either the accountant or the human resources person in the ministry. Whatever, it is a kind of syndicate, otherwise it cannot happen in the first place.
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ARE YOU GOING INTO POLITICS?
I will never retire to politics. I am going home to Maiduguri, I have no plot of land nor house here in Abuja. I want the service to gain something from my 48 years of experience and this is my 49th year in the service.???????????????????????????????????????????
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