Senator Muhammed Magoro, a former Minister of Internal Affairs and a retired Major General in the Nigerian Army now represents Kebbi South Senatorial District in the National Assembly. In this interview with ISAIAH BENJAMIN, the Senate Committee Chairman on Security and Intelligence speaks on the security challenges of the country, the role of the committee which he chairs and suggests ways of fighting corruption.
NIGERIA’S MAJOR PROBLEM NOW IS THE ISSUE OF SECURITY, ESPECIALLY WITH THE CURRENT ACTIVITIES OF THE BOKO HARAM SECT. AS THE SENATE COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN ON SECURITY AND INTELLIGENCE, WHAT IS YOUR COMMITTEE DOING TO SALVAGE THE SITUATION?
What we did in the first instance as a committee is to be briefed by all the security agencies across the country and we sat down to analyse what the problems are in fairness to them. We have been facing nothing but lots of deficiency in the security sector. First and foremost, we have deficiency in the area of man power particularly in the State Security Service (SSS). The largest security outfit Nigeria has is the Nigerian police, because there is no village you go in Nigeria today and you will not find a police man, but we have deficiency of training and orientation. In the good old days, when you see a police man coming, you will make a sigh of relief, to show that you are protected but today when you see a police man, you start to run; this kind of thing has to be changed because it tells you that you are already guilty, which is the opposite of what it used to be and that is what we want to see it go back to, anywhere you see the police man even though without arms, it should show that you are been protected.
So we have to swallow our pride and go outside this country, bring in training teams and also use our best brains in the country by sending them for training outside the country. We have done it before in the army. Before we started the army training college, we used to bring British instructors from outside the country, before the Nigerian Defence Academy started, we went to bring instructor from India, so if we found out that we have a problem, we have to accept it and look for the solution. I belief we have to go out and bring in instructors. Our abilities to analyse cases is virtually zero. For you to train an analyst in the police force, it takes along time, some of you who have been to Lagos and visited the Alagbon, it used to be a famous place but today it is a shadow of itself because the old hands have left or retired.
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WHAT IN YOUR OPINION DO YOU THINK IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MENACE OF BOKO HARAM?
? I did say the largest security we have today is the Nigeria police, they are suppose to be the operators out there in the field, in the good old days you will find police operators in the bars and behave as if they are drunk, in Brussels watching and in every where you go. Some of them take to taxi driving just to get an information and such information is used, but is that what we have today? The answer is no. This is why perhaps Boko Haram today are doing what they have been doing. We don’t have the operators? in the field; without the operators there is nothing we can do, I know you have the technologies that can assist you, you have satellite and all what not but that human element you can not divulge it, people have to be out there as operators and collecting information, passing it down to the appropriate authorities. If there are operators in the field, what is happening today will not happen, they can happen perhaps minimally and not the way and manner it has been going on.
We need to go back to training our people which is my point of emphasis. This is what Boko Haram have, they have a wide network of their people, they listen and passed their information and then they know how they are doing it and above all, they seem to have succeeded in infiltrating us, they move along with us and we think that they are part of us not knowing that they are on the other side.
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WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON THE ARREST OF SENATOR ALI NDUME AND HIS LINK WITH THE BOKO HARAM?
I don’t know the latest decision on the case but the last I read on the papers is that he will be charged to court, what we will like to see happen not only on Senator Ali Ndume but on any Nigerian that is suspected to have anything to do with them. We want the security to be given the time and opportunity to carry out a thorough investigation because we should not let somebody go free if he is guilty and should not jail somebody when he is not guilty.
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CORRUPTION HAS EATEN DEEP INTO? NIGERIA, WHILE SOME HAVE ADVOCATED FOR SEVERE PUNISHMENT FOR CORRUPT PERSONS, OTHERS HAVE SAID, CORRUPT PEOPLE SHOULD BE MADE TO PAY WITH THEIR LIVES, WHICH OF THE VIEWS DO YOU SHARE?
We have to first and foremost examine what leads to corruption, why do people prefer or want to be corrupt? Then if you are able to examine and provide perhaps the reasons why people want to be corrupt, if? one is found guilty at the end of the day, then you ask if there should be death sentence. Perhaps I will say I will go for it. But I think there are a lot of shortcomings. People are employed and perhaps they are not well paid, what we used to know about governance in the good old days, when I was in primary one, before I entered my class in the morning, I had free breakfast, very good meal, on my table, I had writing materials and in my headmasters office, there are lots of good books for pupils’ free reading.
?If I was sick there was a nurse to attend to me. I never paid school fees, now if you remove all these things in the head of a family member, that is perhaps what I refer to as proper governance but today in most of the places, if not all of the places, we are bedeviled with health care, school fees, name them.
What are their salaries and if you are not well paid and you see an opportunity where you can make an extra kobo that is why perhaps some people tends to take to this line of behaviour which wouldn’t have been the case. What I am saying is that, I belief there is more than enough money to pay everybody very well but the rate and amount of money that is been stolen is so colossal and it doesn’t go down, if we are able to block all this loop holes, people will be well paid and when you are well paid, there will be no need to steal money, knowing that if you are sick you go to the hospital and you will be treated free. When I was in secondary school, everything was free, we were even given pocket money. The question is , were we richer than we are today? The answer is no, we are supposed to be richer today than before so what has gone wrong? These are the questions we should be asking ourselves and search for the answers. We can do better, the unfortunate thing is that, in Nigeria, people are never punished for wrong doing. When they steal and you know that they have stolen, the authorities tell them thank you very much, go with what you have stolen but don’t do it again. It has been so and until we accept that there are no sacred cows, then things will never work properly because we only pay lips service to graft!
?When you see a messenger and you ask if the boss was in the office, the way he will answer you, it will be obvious that he is expecting you to put your hands into your pocket, why is he doing that, because he is poorly paid. Perhaps when he left his house, the child was sick or there was no food to eat. The bottom line is that we have to examine why people chose to be corrupt. I will even say some people are forced to be corrupt but there are more than enough resources in this country to get people well paid. But then if people are well paid and you engage in corruption and caught, then death penalty is a welcome development.
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REMOVAL OF FUEL SUBSIDY, DO YOU SUPPORT DEREGULATION IN THE DOWN STREAM OIL SECTOR?
The question is: why do we talk about subsidy? Nigeria is the number six oil producing nation in the world. The question is why are we not producing or refining what we need. We are in the thirteenth year of uninterrupted democracy in this country, have we built a brand new refinery? The four we have, to me are not refineries but scraps, from drawing board to commissioning, a refinery takes five years though it depends on the capacity. We were just fooling ourselves but you can not deceive people all the times, the point is that we should be seen to be up and doing, it is a pity and unfortunate that we are producing oil yet we can not refine what we need for our own local consumption.
It is a shame, because they are talking about subsidy when you are not even refining what you need. If we are refining what we need, you wont be talking about subsidy, it doesn’t even arise; so for me if you are talking about fuel subsidy, the question will be why are we not refining what we produce and enough of what we need to consume internally? In other words, we don’t have the refineries and if we don’t have the refineries then why don’t we have the refineries? From what I read in the newspapers, for a turn around maintenance of each of our refineries, they say you will spend about two hundred million dollars. This is mind- boggling figure. Nigeria needs to make up her mind to be seen to invest more and build more refinery, nothing stops the government from building at least two refineries yearly, in the next perhaps eight to ten years. We will have at least ten to fifteen refineries, they don’t have to be of the same capacity. There are some that are called mobile refineries. So removal of fuel subsidy is a self inflicted injury we have done to ourselves in the sense that we have refused to build brand new refineries. The ones we have are not even performing, you can’t escape from importing, you export the crude and bring in the refined products all from your own country, and does it make any sense?
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WHAT ARE YOUR VIEWS ON THE RE-INTRODUCTION OF TOLL GATES IN NIGERIA?
Where are the roads? I don’t even see the roads where toll gates should be introduced.? After going through potholes you then ask me to pay toll gates? If the roads are well built, I will support toll gates, if the roads are there, it needs to be maintained but if the roads are not there what are you paying for. The only road is from here (Kaduna) to Abuja, perhaps when you are going, there are less of potholes but when you are coming back, there are lots of potholes. I drove along the road recently, the potholes I saw was shocking, and? you? ask me to pay toll gates? The roads should be properly maintained and where possible reconstructed, then toll gate re-introduction will be a welcome idea.?
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WHAT ARE YOUR ACHIEVEMENTS SO FAR IN THE SENATE?
The greatest problem, I think is poverty which has become endemic not only in my constituency alone but every part of the country. Poverty we might say is an offspring of lack of employment which is another issue which is also a by product of the lack of power which we have in this country. Basically, I want to empower my people through proper legislation and oversight functions on the executive.
The road in my area is nothing to write home about; the road is filled with potholes. It is one of the major road arteries in Nigeria because it doesn’t only stop in Nigeria, it continues into the Niger Republic and in that case it is an international road, there is the need for the government to uplift it, not just patching it which has been the practice by FERMA and other road management agencies, the road needs to be properly asphalted.
The other arteries of the road; from Yauri, Kontogora are no longer accessible. People now have to divert through other roads to get to Zuru, that road is the main life wire of Zuru emirate.? We are talking with the relevant ministries to see how the construction of that road can be part of 2012 budget.?
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AMONG THE THREE SENATORS IN KEBBI STATE, YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHOSE ELECTION IS NOT BEEN CHALLENGED, WHAT IS THE SECRET?
Well, everything was done according to laid down rules and regulations even my opponent congratulated me. I thank God for everything.
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?WHAT IS YOUR POSITION ON THE SACK OF FARIDA WAZIRI?
The government that employed her chose to sack her for reasons best known to them. What I don’t really like with the system of appointments in Nigeria is that when you are appointed, the appointing authorities and many people shower accolades on you but when you are going, you just hear it on the radio or people call to tell you that you have been sacked. I believe the government should have done a small party for Waziri, express appreciation for heir contribution to the nation.
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