Renowned Professor of Law Itsay Sagay opens up in this encounter with LEADERSHIP SUNDAY’s OLAOLU OLADIPO and PAUL DADA on his foray into politics. He also nostalgically tracks back into his life’s journey, sharing rare glimpses of his childhood, early education, and concludes that all is not well with the country
Can we have an insight into your birth and early childhood?
I come from Delta State, specifically, from the Warri-Sapele axis where my parents come from. I went to school like any normal child. I went to school in that area. When I left school, I worked, first as a customs clerk and subsequently as a studio manager at the Nigerian Broadcasting corporation after which I proceeded to the then University of Ife.
Whilst working, I was doing my A-levels. My school was an excellent school, a first class one at that. Unfortunately, the situation has changed, what we find in the school now is a far cry from what used to be obtained when we were there.
Who were your class mates and where are they now?
Quite an number of them such as Engineer J.J Akpeyi who was the Managing Director of PPMC (Petroleum Products Marketing Company). We have people like Professor Amuda who was at a time in the United States of America but later returned to teach at the University of Lagos where he is currently a professor of political science.
People like Dr. Jerry Nwankwo who was the Director Of Petroleum Affairs In The Ministry Of Petroleum. These were some of the people that readily come to mind. We were not so many then very few. In the university, most of my classmates ended up as legal practitioners but did not venture to go into the bench.
Most of them were in the ministry of justice of their respective states of origin; they mostly ended up as permanent secretaries before they retired. A number of us, like me too became university lecturers, like Professor Iluyomade who became the VC at Ife.
Let’s come back to your family…how large was your family?
We were quite large, eleven of us but I was by far the most senior and it placed on me a position of great responsibility, my siblings look up to me for leadership and direction. Things have worked out reasonably well; you know the problem forging a family. There were occasional schisms which had to be dealt with.
Sibling rivalry might have been there latently but the age gap between me and my younger sibling was very wide has prevented such from rearing its ugly head. It took a while after I was born before my parents started have other children. I am more like a father to them.
Everybody is grown up now; they have grown up children themselves. So, the relationship has been very good really because they look up to me as the representative of our father in their eyes.
While growing up, was there any kind of pranks that you played that you now fondly remember with nostalgia?
I was a rather orthodox kind of person; I wasn’t that imaginative and troublesome. I can say that now but those who knew me could have a contrary opinion.
For instance, Professor Amuda told me how we used to steal out of the compound at Government College, Ughelli in those days for fruits in the bush. I couldn’t remember but he was telling me that we were caught doing that. I did what most secondary school pupils do; we stole out to read when it was light out. Then, it was a serious offence in the school in those days.
You had many Yoruba school mates at Government College Ughelli, one would have thought that the school would have been reserved for children in the location. Can you possibly tell us how large Yoruba student population was back then?
I think, you are right to say that there was sizeable number of pupils that came from the South West. They rose up to become very important Nigerian citizens. For instance Professor Tomori who was the Vice President of Redeemer University was my junior at Government College Ughelli.
There was Mr. Olaniyan…we have a lot of Yoruba, we had Igbo students. The area where we did not have students was the far north, even though we had few of them from the Middle Belt. Don’t forget that as at the time we are talking about, the area was under the control of Western Region.
Was the relationship like between native pupils and those from other areas?
The school was essentially a boarding school, so there was minimal interaction. It was an elitist school. In the whole of what is today Delta State, there were just three schools even though we had others which were of very low status.
The schools were Government College, Ughelli, Urhobo College, Warri. The people looked up to us as demi-gods, it really was a privilege to attend our school in those days.
During? your time in school, the country had not witnessed the current level of sophistication in terms of access to information technology, yet the level of intellect was deep compared to what we have now. What would you ascribe to the current down turn in education across the country?
Yes! You are very correct. I have the same problem at home where my children are glued to the computer the whole day long. It is the number and quality of books that you read that makes you who you are.
This is the danger that we parents have come to realize that our children are no longer interested in reading books. We have to bring them back to the old diet of reading book and reduce the time they spend on computers. We now have power who computer savvy and intellectually bankrupt. That is the different.
What spurred you to study law? One would have thought that since you had a job, you would have been contented with what you were doing.
It was a combination of two factors. One, my house where I used to stay was very close to the House of Representatives building. When you raise your head you would see the building. We used to close at about 2 pm and by 2:30 I was at home to have lunch, leaving me with nothing to do. I would just walk straight into the chambers to watch proceedings.?
All the great people you can remember, (Sir Abubakar) Tafawa-Balewa, (Malam) Musa Yar’Adua, the father of the Yar’Aduas, Tony Enahoro, Maitama Sule, (Chief) Okotie-Eboh, (Chief) Samuel Akintola and others. I can tell you one thing; the standard of debate in those days was very qualitative. You cannot compare what you had then with what is obtainable today.
The parliamentarians of that era were really very enlightened, although, the facilities were not there but they did their research very well before coming to the House. What really impressed me most were the Action Group members. Most times, the shadow ministers were far more competent that the substantive ministers.
I had wanted to be a doctor but when I got acquainted with the proceedings in the House, I changed my decision to become a medical doctor. I was already attending A-level class in the sciences with hope of studying medicine. By January, 1962 we had to do the A-Level exams and surprisingly I passed all my exams.? The deputy director general was Dr. Christopher Kolade, who was my house master at Government College Ughelli.
Did he teach there?
Yes…He taught there. So, I thought if I showed him the result, it would facilitate my rise in the professional ladder. I saw after having booked an appointment with him. When I asked him how it would help in my rise and he shocked me when he told me that it won’t make any difference. Soon afterwards, I was offered admission to study law at the University of Ife.
Those were the two propelling reasons for the decision. I had already developed interest in the profession and two, I was told by somebody who should know that what I had achieved with the three A-level results were of no use in the civil service.
Did any of your children take after you to become a lawyer?
Yes! Unfortunately, it’s something I don’t want to go to because of the bereavement in that direction.
Has declining standard of education affected the quality of lawyers in the country?
The problem is even getting worse. I taught in the university before but when you look at the quality of graduates from the law schools you will be appalled by the language and the diction they speak.
From the way you’ve spoken, could it be said that you actually set out to become a politician and if that is so, why did you not go into active politics?
(Cuts in) I really wanted to become a politician.
So, why did you have a change of heart by opting to become an academician?
I didn’t really have a change of heart. I will tell you the circumstances that took me away. I went to (University of) Ife alright, but at that time, Chief Obafemi Awolowo had been detained by the Federal Government having been accused of committing treason. I am a firm believer in the philosophy of the late Chief Awolowo and the Action Group.
At this time, their ideals and ideology had been deeply rooted in me. I had seen their performance, their single mindedness and I had been convinced. To me, I had come to the conclusion that it was the nearest one could get to civility if the party could come to power.
When I got to the university, many students were scared to have anything to do with the AG and I said no, a student branch must be formed. And we formed it and I was elected the secretary. During the period when we formed the group, the chairman was enticed by the government of Chief SLA Akintola and I was elected in his stead.
This conferred on me the privilege of attending the national executive council meeting of the party. When it came to election time in December 1964, the AG gave us vehicle with police to campaign in some parts of the region. In fact, the occasion provided me with the opportunity to learn how to speak Yoruba on the train as I had to speak the language to the people.
Where were you posted to precisely?
We were posted to Iwo, Osogbo, Ilesa, Ile-Ife. In fact, we were almost killed in Ile-Ife when Chief Fani-Kayode unleashed his thugs on us. It was a terrible experience; we were attacked by these hoodlums who rather luckily for us did not have guns but cutlasses and charms. We barely escaped with our dear lives in the two vehicles we took there, a Land Rover and a Volkswagen.
I was involved in politics but shortly after that the military came in and I left for the United Kingdom to pursue further education. But when I finally came back? the military men were still around but I joined when the UPN (Unity Party of Nigeria). You know in politics, you can show interest but it was the party that would nominate you.
If I had come from Oyo State, I would have possibly been a commissioner under the late Chief Bola Ige who knew me well. Professor Ambrose Alli who was the governor of old Bendel State was not really keen on having me serve him as he did know much about me even though, the late Chief Bola Ige tried to put in a word or two on my behalf.
The UPN established a think-thank headed by the late Professor Sam Aluko and I was appointed into it. Throughout the Second Republic, the think tank was operational. That was the extent to which I went in politics. I am a symphatiser of the ACN being the offshoot of the two former parties. They usually involve me in all they do.
Did you ever meet with Chief Awolowo? On what occasion was it? And what did you discuss with him?
Of course, he was the leader of my party. I will give you an example which shows what a man of great quality he was. It was around 1971 when the civil war was over; the Yakubu Gowon-led government was derailing. It was growing rather insensitive to the yearnings of the people.
There was wide spread corruption everywhere, military governors were behaving like war lords in their states and I took courage to write him requesting for a meeting with him on the need to pull out of the government as a means of protecting his hard earned reputation. I believed that having helped the country though the civil war with buoyant economy to show for it, it was time he left.
He invited and I met him, expectantly as he knew me very well. I told pointedly…sir I don’t think you should continue to be in this government anymore. You’ve done your bit and I think you should leave. When I finished, he looked and me and laughed and he said thank you, I have heard you. You can go back to Ife, in few days you will hear from me, a month after, he tendered his resignation.
Would you say he heeded your advice?
No! I will be flattering myself too much if I say so. I think he had already come to that conclusion himself. What I said was merely telling him what he had decided to do. We met at other occasions but to me that was the most symbolic occasion.
It was for two reasons, he was the deputy head of state and minister of finance, and he saw me on the basis of a letter, no protocols. We spoke face to face and I discovered that he had the right idea.
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