Senator Abubakar Girie represented Adamawa Central in the Senate from 1999 to 2003 under the platform of the People’s Democratic Party (PDP). In this interview with ISAIAH BENJAMIN, he discusses the issues that were raised during a conference organized by the Justice Alfa Belgore-led Presidential Committee on Constitution Review and argues that a sovereign national conference would not reflect the situation on ground in Nigeria but a referendum could be a realistic alternative.
Recently, you were at the conference of ethnic nationality chiefs, professionals, labour leaders and civil society groups where issues on the constitution review were discussed. Can you tell us of your experience at that meeting that had President Jonathan in attendance?
All the key actors were there and they presented their papers. The whole event was organized by the Justice Alfa Belgore committee, the committee inaugurated by the President to help him on the constitution review, which recently submitted its report and he also appointed a committee to work with the committee that is already in place. It is this committee that organized the conference. Belgore himself was there as the chairman of the occasion. He gave a key note address where he traced the history of this country since 1902, a graphical presentation on how constitution making guarantees stability in governance, how stability in governance creates an enabling environment for peace and peaceful co-existence, how peaceful co-existence enhances the wellbeing and prosperity of a society for the common man in particular. This is beautiful.
Another thing that really appealed to me was the fact that Mr President stayed till the end of the conference, instead of the usual departure from an event after the opening ceremony. I was surprised that he decided to stay till the end of the session. The organizers appeared to be in a hurry to allow the President to take his leave, but he told them that he was not in a hurry to leave the event, and anybody who wanted to speak should be allowed to speak. I think this is a departure from the past; this is the kind of leadership commitment Nigerians are looking up to. After the three speakers have spoken, they now allow people to air their views, the likes of Olisa Agbakoba, Femi Falana, name them, NUJ President, NLC President, TUC President, women representative, youth representative, they all spoke. The organizers wanted to stop at that level, thinking that the President is tired at that stage, but the President said anybody in the hall who wants to speak should be allowed to speak.
At the end of the day, people were allowed to vote on almost the key issues raised, there were about 12 items that were listed, almost the major and sensitive national issues; state creation, sovereign national conference, oil dichotomy, resource control, security issue, nature of presidential system, whether it should 5, 6, 7-year single term or two-term, and the State Governor, what type of Governor you want, what type of democracy you want, it parliamentary or presidential system. All these things were listed, discussed and voted for, people voted on this issue. There was a communiqué that came out, listing all these issues, and in line with the decision through voting by participants. I see this as very encouraging; I see this as a complete departure from the way our leaders have handled issues in the past. I think, if we are to continue that way, we are likely to make progress.
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Is the country likely to have a better constitution at the end of the day?
I think so. I think we will. As I said I went there with a mind set. If I had known it was going to be transparent, participatory, I would have made my mind to speak. But what I gathered from contributions made at the event, we have a complete departure from the past because even Nigerians that spoke a few months ago insisted on sovereign national conference of every ethnic nationality in Nigeria. This is what they have been advocating for since 15 years ago, but they are now singing a different song, maybe because they have realized the futility of asking for a sovereign national conference of ethnic nationalities. We have always told them that the song they are singing does not rhyme with the situation on ground in Nigeria. We keep on telling them that if they want sovereign national conference of ethnic nationalities, you will be the first people to regret it because it is common knowledge that in Nigeria we have not less than 250 ethnic nationalities. These 250 ethnic nationalities, in Adamawa alone, my own state, we have more than 80 out of that. In the North-East, there are more than 150 out of the 250. So the advocates of sovereign national conference of ethnic nationalities are predominantly Yoruba, and people from the middle belt and few from the south east. Now if they think 250 ethnic groups will come together with one person representing each one of them, at the end of the day, they will find out that Yoruba will have only one, Yoruba that have up to seven states which they control will have only one ethnic representative. And an ethnic group in a ward, not local government area in Adamawa State will also have one representative. Is that fair?
So this is what we keep on telling them. They don’t even know what they are talking about. Anybody who knows the geography and history of this country will not be talking about a conference of ethnic nationalities because they don’t even know that Adamawa alone has 80 ethnic groups, and so if Adamawa brings 80 representatives against Yoruba’s one representative, how will the outcome of that conference be acceptable to the Yoruba? They will not accept it.
People are now talking more of national issues, issues that are of common interest, to make sure your family feed well, your children go to school, and you have good health, which is all. Your wellbeing and the members of your family is your primary concern, not about my tribe either Yoruba, Hausa, Fulani, Igbo, no. wherever you can go within the country to do legitimate business, it is your right. These are the kind of things we should be concerned about. So people have started understanding the issues better and instead of talking of sovereign national conference, they are now talking about having a referendum. Majority of the people who spoke said they want a constitution making process to end up with a referendum. This is a better thinking. That is more realistic.
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What was the general view of the people about referendum and sovereign national conference at the event?
Majority of the people at the conference were of the opinion that we should have a referendum. That is why I said that majority voted in favour of having a referendum. But somebody like me with my experience and knowledge of what election is all about, because when you are talking of referendum, you are talking about election, because it means that you will subject it to electoral process where people like me and you will vote and we voted that one in the hall. But this thing is not just an issue of small group of elites that will sit down and vote. We are talking of 150 million Nigerians who are of voting age, to come out and vote. And you are talking about seven percent of this people, stark illiterate who cannot read and write, who have nothing to do with governance.
So if we are talking about referendum, we have to know the sentimentality of the election. In my mind, and I strongly believe referendum will not work in this place because if you are going for a referendum on one issue, for example, if Nigerians want more states be created or not, it is very easy you can conduct a referendum and get a yes or no answer on that one item. But the constitution review is looking at more than a dozen other issues. What type of paper are you going to have to contain all these? How are you going to educate the people to vote on this? So to my mind, it is practically impossible to take a constitution review matter to a referendum.
We can pick one or two issues, not more than two to go for a referendum, but we must find a more convenient and a more practical way of dealing with other issues. In addition to the legislature structure we have in this country, we have the State House of Assembly where 2/3 is required to pass any constitution amendment; we have the House of Representatives, and the Senate. If these organs are not enough, perhaps, all we need is a national conference that will emerge from ward conference, local government conference, state conference that will result to a national conference, not sovereign, not ethnic nationalities. This is what I would have advocated at that meeting if I had gone there well prepared to speak.
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